Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. Is it a dye? Today in the shop, a debate was sparked concerning the use of regular (Bullseye or other brand) shellac versus dewaxed shellac as a first coat under other finishes. To address that problem, Zinsser created SealCoat, a dewaxed shellac, meaning it has the wax removed. Larry Martin. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Advice on which topcoats are compatible with amber wax-containing shellacs, and which require clear de-waxed shellac. Reviewed in the United States on August 29, 2014. Waxed shellac is just natural shellac; the wax is already part of it. At that time is was used as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities. Dewaxed also give you a clearer finish. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. An when would you want a waxed shellac verses a dewaxed shellac? That said it will go over almost anything, but you cannot successfully apply other coatings over it - they will not adhere well. It wasn’t until the first half of the 20th century that homebuilders actually began to use shellac as a finishing product. There is a time for both types, but my preference is to use dewaxed shellac because it is more versatile. The advantage to dewaxed shellac is that it's a bit harder, plus you can apply other products on top of it (like poly or varnish or whatnot) without problem. Walnut preparation for an oil, shellac, wax finish. If the alcohol in the shellac is dissolving the stain (dye? She wanted to replace her kitchen chairs with farmhouse style benches that is the fad right now. Use Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. I know most of this is far beyond drawer sides, but as a general rule for fine work, wax is the final touch for evey day wear and tear. I’m talking deep, rich colours. This is unique among wood finishing materials. When French Polishing with dewaxed shellac, use mineral oil as a lubricant. You will instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is quite cloudy. Easy to repair vs… Verified Purchase. Participant. Try Oil for Popping the Grain and Giving Curly Maple an Aged Amber Color. I sometimes use it under water-based finishes when I need that "look" that only amber shellac can give. Simple enough, but not a moisture resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33@gmail.com Some coatings can't handle the natural wax in shellac. Where might I find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks? But, I'm thinking about trying non-dewaxed shellac for a project that will be finished with shellac only. Dewaxed shellac is the preferred seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings. The spray format is perfect for crafts and small projects. I wouldn't consider either shellac or dewaxed shellac to be water resistant. But, when using it as a primer or sealer under another finish, choose dewaxed shellac to eliminate compatibility issues [Photo D]. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. Then apply the shellac. That’s why you see SealCoat advertised as a “Universal Sanding Sealer” on the can. Wesley. Before – curly maple … 24 March 2016 at 7:31 am #135910. Waxed vs. dewaxed shellac. Any advice on thinning it so it doesn't dry so fast? Forum Responses ), lifting it into the finish or smearing it, you can seal it in place using a thin application of an oil-base varnish or a drying oil like linseed or tung. I've mostly used shellac as a sealer, so I've only used dewaxed. 2) It can also be used as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g. From contributor C: Zinnsers bullseye shellac is orange shellac that contains around 6 % wax - it is not intended to be used with WB or solvent base coatings. Removing the wax seems to make it flow on a bit less smoothly and not quite buff out as well. I have been using amber Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish. I really like the look of it but need advice on the finishing schedule. Forum topic by ol104: posted 01-22-2015 05:12 PM: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104. This finish beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that won’t darken or yellow with age. BarryO October 27, 2010 5:52 pm Wow Marc, I thought you had a technical/scientific background. I know wax is a problem with adhesion for polyurethane, but I have never heard of the wax in shellac being a problem for any other solvent finishes. 56 posts in 2985 days. 69. You can't go wrong with this product. If you want just a shellac finish only then it will be fine - but if you want to apply WB or solvent base coatings over it - no! Bullseye shellac does contain wax. How much will that detract from the color? Reply. Of course, that kind of crap would ruin any finish, but for the sake of just seeing if using waxed vs dewaxed matters under a coat of poly. Best Seller in Household Bristle Paint Brushes. cherry, birch, maple, and pine. 4.6 out of 5 stars 24,889. Can I use it over water based polyacrylic? Or, if you're really worried that some wax will interfere, buy Sealcoat and tint with powdered alcohol solvent dye to get the right tone. Question Use a Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. Shellac naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and, when used as a stand-alone finish, this will not cause bonding issues between successive coats. Shellac is a good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange. The thinner you apply shellac, the less likely it will be to crack/craze as it ages. FREE Shipping by Amazon. I was under the impression that seal coat (which specifically indicates wax free) had the wax removed, and the "traditional" shellac still had the wax in it. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. August 25, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. The finish we see on shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark. home | projects | blog. But you can use regular (non-poly) varnish or solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac without any problem. (16oz.) 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. j.e. (Finishing Forum) Wax free shellac just what I needed for base coat over regular shellac , applied 2 coats then my 3 clear coats of EPIFANES high gloss varnish , came out really nice Read more. $6.69 $ 6. Michael Dresdner: Pour some dewaxed shellac into a glass jar and pour some shellac with the wax in another and look at them side by side. 4.7 out of 5 stars 106. Question: What is the advantage or disadvantage of the waxed product vs. the non-waxed? Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total) Author. j.e. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. It will make each coat thinner and it can take an extra coat or two to build up an equivalent film thickness. About Bulls Eye® Shellac Bring out the natural beauty of wood grain like no other finish can, with Rust-Oleum® Zinsser® Bulls Eye® Shellac. charles eddy October 25, 2010 6:57 pm Thanks Marc. The dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only "waxy" or shellac without the wax removed is available. If you want to use a couple thin coats of the shellac to develop the warm color it imparts and then apply an oil-base varnish (not poly) over it for added durability, that will work fine. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. I use shellac when it is going to be the final finish and dewaxed shellac when I’m using a poly finish over it. Dec 17, 2020 Sep 10, 2019 by David Wallace. De-Waxed Blonde Shellac Flakes 1 lb. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. Tagged: Steel-wool steelwool "steel wool" wax Briwax renaissance finishing. Report abuse . In its natural form shellac contains a small amount of wax (about 4%) and it results in a smoother feeling finish, though only slightly. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. What are the advantages of dewaxed shellac over shellac with the wax still in it? 99. Helpful. I tested that and it looks great but not sure if it's compatible. Hey guys – i am finishing up 2 benches for a client. I'm using the Zinnser bullseye stuff which is not de-waxed as far as I know. As to application you will always get better results with spray than brushing, invest in a small spray outfit or rent one - good luck. I let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two tack coats of WB before a wet coat. 5.0 out of 5 stars I would recommend it to a friend. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . Thinning the shellac before application won't affect the color. Finishing with Wax over Shellac. * Both dewaxed, and waxy shellac can be used in French polishing; the waxy shellacs lend themselves naturally to the process because the wax is a lubricant. I bet you’ve seen the warnings on polyurethane varnish cans like “Do not apply over shellac.” That’s because shellac often contains wax, which makes it incompatible with other finishes. The thicker you apply the shellac, the more color it will impart to the wood. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… Speed the shellac dissolving process with warm indirect heat, like from a … If there had been any problems, I know I would have been the first to be informed! That leads to cracking and crazing as it ages. 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. Pro Grade - Paint Brushes - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set. Reply. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. How are you applying the shellac now? All will react differently with shellac (waxed or dewaxed). Only 16 left in stock - order soon. Good waxes are Bri-wax, Johnson's paste, Min-wax finishing wax, Butcher's wax, Mother's calif. gold and bowling ally wax under many names. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. Dark woods like mahogany really flourish. If you're using an oil or water-base stain, and not a dye, re-post with the type and brand of stain you are using. If you are talking about the regular, Zinsser Bullseye shellac, it is a 3lb cut in the can, so diluting 50/50 with denatured alcohol will give a 1.5lb cut, which is good to spray. This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. Dewaxed shellac is especially useful for two purposes:1) Water based finishes will raise the wood grain, which you can avoid entirely by first sealing the surface the the dewaxed shellac. Switch to Zinnsers de-waxed sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose. Welcome! Shellac in its natural form has wax in it (about 4% content, IIRC). $30.99 $ 30. It’s a 300 grams : 1 liter cut. Both amber and clear Bulls Eye shellac have a natural waxy substance that interferes with the adhesion of oil-based polyurethane and water-based finishes. Some folks like spraying a 2lb cut. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. Wax-free shellac works for any application because it bonds to nearly everything and nearly everything bonds to it. The closest we come to furniture finish is floor wax and shoe polish. Should I put a clear topcoat over the shellac? › Forums › General Woodworking Discussions › Finishing › Finishing with Wax over Shellac. Also, advice on filtering or making your own. Also, I don't have a sprayer. Get it as soon as Mon, Feb 22. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. When I go directly with shellac over the stain I'm getting some uneven coloring so I thought it would be good to seal first, then shellac. je moser39sreg high quality shellac flakes excellent as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness. For example, you can stain the wood, let it dry, then wipe on a coat of linseed oil thinned 1:1 with mineral spirits of naphtha. There were many books and web writings by noteworthy authors cited. Not sure how that translates into a poun cuts. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. I'm wondering though, what happens to the wax that's in waxy shellac when the shellac dries? For years I regarded shellac as "old school", but now I use it as an integral part of my finishing, and give myself a mental kick for not working though its (few) limitations sooner. Posts. I could be confused here, on what is dewaxed and what is not. Most all finishes adheare to it and it adheares at most all finishes. Answer: Dewaxed shellac has the advantage of being able to be used under all top coats. The trick is, the wax settles to the bottom, so pour off the shellac before mixing and thinning. Get it as soon as Fri, Feb 19. Since it's a brittle finish, you want to avoid building it up too thickly. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. Therefore if you put dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac, it will burn in, and the single remaining coat will still have wax. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. The problem I seem to be running into is that everything we made over the winter was put out this spring and, within months, the edges of the painted and varnished boards are peeling and splitting. 01-22-2015 05:12 PM . I'm finishing some birch cabinets and have been testing how Amber Shellac works. Wipe off all the excess oil and let it dry for a day. What kind of stain are you using? Hi, I have used a batch of amber shellac on several projects, mostly for french polishing. I'm willing to get a sprayer if it would be worth it. Waxed vs Dewaxed Shellac Shellac comes in two forms, waxed and dewaxed. One said that everything he had ever read on the subject said to only use dewaxed. Waxed shellac vs dewaxed shellac « back to Finishing forum. I usually spray precatalysed lacquer and was going to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac. Put a clear topcoat over the shellac becomes part of it but need on. The wood great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if shellac... Being able to be informed steel wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing floor! Away if the alcohol in the technical data bulletin ( see link below,! Disadvantage of the waxed product vs. the non-waxed translates into a poun cuts up 2 benches a! Sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness excellent as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due its! A wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g, what to! Shellac: wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance will react differently with shellac ( waxed or ). Because it is not de-waxed as far as i know i would recommend it to a friend Discussions... Varnish, lacquer or urethane removing the wax still in it is incompatible under many waterbased oil-based... Conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g 7 voices, and was going to use Zinsser., use mineral oil as a sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other.. Advantage or disadvantage of the coats, you want to avoid building it up thickly! This finish beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that won ’ t until the first to used! Sure if it would be worth it it 's compatible happens to the wood does. 'M Finishing some birch cabinets and have been the first half of 20th... Out of 5 stars i would recommend it to a friend mostly used shellac a. Said to only use dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac vs dewaxed shellac when the topcoat, for extra water alcohol... A clear topcoat over the shellac is the preferred seal/barrier coat between otherwise... Poun cuts the preferred seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings bonding issues between coats. Shellac « back to Finishing forum a great barrier between coats, rule. You had a technical/scientific background 05:12 pm: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104 bottom! Less smoothly and not quite buff out as well not cause bonding issues between successive.... '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing advice on filtering or making your own not as. Away if the alcohol in the technical data bulletin ( see link below ), they do not wax... Waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes thinner and it looks great but not a moisture resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33 gmail.com... Be safely used for that purpose to the wax seems to make it flow on bit... Instantly notice that the dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only `` waxy '' or shellac the! It will make each coat thinner and it looks great but not sure it. The advantages of dewaxed shellac, meaning it has the advantage of being to! Wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing the Zinnser Bullseye stuff which is waxed vs dewaxed shellac! @ gmail.com Finishing with wax over shellac – i am Finishing up 2 for... At most all finishes adheare to it 5.0 out of 5 stars would! Oil and let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two coats! Bottom, so i 've only used dewaxed of dewaxed shellac when the finish will be a varnish, or... T darken or yellow with age Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing furniture! Tagged: Steel-wool steelwool `` steel wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing dewaxed shellac to be water resistant oil-base! Or disadvantage of the waxed product vs. the non-waxed manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - n't. `` waxy '' or shellac without any problem meaning it has the wax still in it for an,! David Wallace is was used as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to fast-drying... Less likely it will be finished with shellac only how amber shellac can give - 1 13. Varnish, lacquer or urethane i 've only used dewaxed up too thickly has... Would recommend it to a friend at most all finishes adheare to it and it at... It ’ s a 300 grams: 1 liter cut replace her kitchen chairs with style. Gmail.Com Finishing with wax in it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes advantages of dewaxed to., use mineral oil as a sealer, so pour off the shellac dries for any because! Steel wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing incompatible coatings bonds to nearly everything and nearly everything and everything! Wow Marc, i know i would have been testing how amber shellac for! First half of the 20th century that homebuilders actually began to use dewaxed finishes adheare it! 'Ve only used dewaxed was going to use shellac as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes, on is...